To quote Greg:
That is: removed from the class of animals where carnivorism might make sense for humans qua their animality.
This is in no way an apology for blue collar workers, or workers of any stripe, rolling out the hot dog and hamburger parade (this is the 4th of July). I am saying that if we can imagine a condition in which humans are on par with real animals, then we can imagine, as a subset of that, a social condition in which eating meat makes sense. The condition of humans among the rest of the animals is the starting point from which a non-negative ethos toward animals must emerge. Reconciling this with sumptuary politics is not impossible but it does require a proper understanding of historical method.
This is not an unfamiliar argument, that if we are to destroy the anthropocentrism that justifies so much violence against animals we might have to allow humans to eat flesh because many animals eat flesh. I clearly don't agree with this position, and I believe this disagreement has some broader theoretical implications I want to explore now.
Species may be real, but they are not actual. That is to say the construction of species has obvious material consequences, and the policing of the boundaries of species are all very real. Species are therefore real, the effects of this reality is felt from animals in factory farms to the transatlantic slave trade, but this reality is virtual. That is to say, it doesn't exist even if it is real. As Craig likes to point out "According to Grene and Depew's textbook on the philosophy of biology, there are at least twenty-three distinct concepts of species presently being discussed in the literature." So, just as Derrida in The Animal that Therefore I Am points out that the problem with a term like the animal because it makes it seem as if all animals exist generically on one side, and that humans exist completely outside of the animal, arguments that privilege the coherence of "species" are certainly problematic. The result is that critical animal scholars are put in a similar position of earlier critical gender and race theorists (hence, the title of this post).
We cannot reduce difference. We cannot simply reject the constructed nature of species in return for some sort of generic animal. There are a wide variety of differences and commonalities among all animals (humans certainly included) and difference cannot be subordinated. As always we have to struggle for an egalitarianism that also doesn't reduce difference. So, while it is true that some animals eat flesh, it is also true that some animals don't. It is also true that some animals, like the gorilla, are fairly vegetarian (and I mean that word, not herbivore). There is obviously among other animals a strong degree of difference when it comes to flesh eating, and that certainly does not mean that a rejection of anthropocentrism means we have to act like certain other animals and eat flesh. I think that path follows a certain reductionism that we also need to struggle to avoid.
5 comments:
This may sound blasphemous, but I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with killing/slaughtering if we are not to accept the dominant discourse of modern liberalism.
If we acknowledge morality comes from our evolutionary roots and resides within socially constituted and instinctive values (i.e. Hume, Smith, Darwin, Haidt), "objectively" morality is culturally relative. However "is" this may be, logically we cannot not draw an *ought* from an is.
The argument that humans are "animals" just like others equally falls to the naturalistic fallacy, but if humans are *equally* accepting of killing and consuming other humans, then I could imagine a sufficient case for killing and eating nonhuman individuals. Yet, I doubt most people would be comfortable with such a scenario--the lives of themselves and their loved ones are far too valuable to be eviscerated for the evisceration of animal others' bodies.
I ultimately think there are very good reasons why we ought to oppose the killing of all sentient beings, but only within the context of justice, fairness, equality etc (it is very difficult to articulate while avoiding liberal rhetoric).
"If we acknowledge morality comes from our evolutionary roots and resides within socially constituted and instinctive values (i.e. Hume, Smith, Darwin, Haidt), "objectively" morality is culturally relative. However "is" this may be, logically we cannot not draw an *ought* from an is."
Not sure I am willing to say that. Not saying ethics are objective, whatever that would mean, but I am also not sure I would say they come from evolutionary roots. Also not sure this paragraph matters for the rest of your argument.
The rest of your argument seems to be that the real issue is speciesism (or whatever you choose to call it) rather than the killing itself. I don't think I'd agree with that, but I've found questions of cannibalism to be very interesting. (I've plugged this book before, but Eduardo Viveiros de Castro's From an Enemy's Point of View). I have often, at conferences and in discussions with friends, responded to questions about vegetarianism by putting it in context of cannibalism, and they almost never take the questions seriously.
Scu-
To summarize my question: is there hypothetically a time or place in which humans eating animals is morally ok? If not, how is this not an ahistorical or metaphysical criterion?
That said, I do generally agree with what you say about logical errors relating the categories "human" and "animal" in their multiple valences.
More interestingly, cannibalism is very much to the point and I would say the same thing as above about it. If we can't imagine it being ok we're liable to fall into the repressions that drove so much South Seas/savagism discourse in the 19th c.. I've been working on a paper for a long time about cannibalism/animals/capital in Moby Dick and will hopefully be finding a venue for it soon. Therein I make a similar (expanded) argument about how vegetarianism as political praxis makes sense as a specific renunciation of the logic of capital. If it ever goes anywhere I'll let you know.
"is there hypothetically a time or place in which humans eating animals is morally ok?"
I started to type a longer, more ass-covering sort of answer. Here is the shorter one: Yes, of course. I'm not too interested in figuring it out. It seems like the lifeboat situation you said you weren't too interested in, either.
I'm no Kantian.
When I speak of a becoming-vegetarian/vegan, this is part of what I mean. Our being is never vegetarian or vegan, what we have is a process of subjectivity and a relationship. A major part of this means not eating flesh. Is that an universal dictum? No, of course not.
As a general rule, the lifeboat shouldn't govern our daily actions precisely because our daily actions tend not to occur on lifeboats.
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